For example:
Why a "yellow fog" and "the evening is spread out against the sky like a patient etherised upon a table" ?
This is the answer of another student:
First of all, there's all the crazy conflicting imagery, like "when the evening is spread out against the sky like a patient etherised upon a table." I mean, look at that line (or rather, two lines). Just look at it. "When the evening is spread out upon the sky" sounds all Romantic-esque with its emphasis on nature and evening (which is when 90% of romantic scenes take place, I swear), but then it abruptly turns to that poor patient. The word "patient" suggests sickness and pain- a big difference from the romance of the evening and the sky. And then "etherized." Well, an eveing that is a sick patient and is drugged to sleep is going NOWHERE! Just like the narrator. It sets the scene, predicts the future of poor J. Alfred, before he even has a chance to introduce the women.
Now you do - choose one of the questions below to discuss in a responding post:
1. Class divisions are also pretty apparent in the poem- How did Elliot incorporate this? AND WHY ? Hint: while the city, home of the working classes, is depicted as being dirty, unpleasant and possibly unsafe, the upper class life is much different.
2. Where and WHY does Elliot incorporate vers libre: reflecting the free flow of human consciousness as it attempts to come to terms with a complex reality" and "occasional, irregularly placed rhymes?
3. Fragmentation is a common theme of this time period because everything, including people's ideas, are all challenged to the limits with all the crazy stuff that's happening, like the World War, and, sure enough, there's a hell of a lot of fragmentation in this poem. How many examples, different types, are evident and WHAT was Elliot's PURPOSE in creating such fragmentation?
4. What is the implication of the line - "Do I dare eat a peach?" and how does it relate/compare to Prufock's other questions in the poem?
5.This one is for Anthony:
Visual imagery: Imagery related to sight.
Olfactory imagery: Imagery related to smell.
Kinesthetic imagery: Imagery related to movement.
Tactile imagery: Imagery related to touch.
Aural imagery: Imagery related to sound.
Gustatory imagery: Imagery related to taste.
What two or three types of imagery do you feel dominate the poem and why would Elliot have chosen to focus on the images that he has?
My comment corresponds with #4. In asking "Do I dare eat a peach?" Prufrock sums up all of his petty fears into perhaps the most pathetic of them all. Peach pits are poisonous when consumed, but people still enjoy them, taking care not to eat this particular segment. Prufrock, who is unnerved by nearly all of life's pleasures, finds himself questioning whether he should take the "risk" of eating a peach, an action most of us would see as perfectly safe. The pit is so large that the chances of swallowing it by accident are highly unlikely, but Prufrock is so intimidated that he qustions whether he should even try. Similarly, this same attitude is reflected in the other questions Prufrock asks throughout the poem. The repetition of "Do I dare?" is a symbol for his constant fear of rejection and humiliation, and gives us the impression that he suffers from very low self-esteem. "Do I dare disturb the universe?" is, in a way, the culmination of Prufrock's worries. He believes that his introducing himself to a woman will cause such a disaster or implication that he equates it with a dramatic change in the course of the universe. By moving from these questions to those such as "Do I dare eat a peach?" we are shown the degradation of Prufrock's confidence and faith in himself, until he is left to realize he is a shell of a man by the poem's end.
ReplyDelete#5:
ReplyDeleteThe two types of imagery that dominate this poem are visual and kinesthetic. Firstly, Elliot uses synecdoches in order to show how Prufrock is quite self-conscious about his reputation, or standing out in a crowd. He talks about certain body parts, when is referring to full human beings. It is easier for Prufrock to relate to body parts than humans, due to the fact that he considers himself less than the average human. These visuals of body parts show us how he thinks of himself and symbolize his self-esteem, or lack thereof. In addition to this, there is also much visual imagery when Elliot describes the ocean. For example, "I have seen them riding seaward on the waves / Combing the white hair of the waves blown back / When the wind blows the water white and black." In this quote, Prufrock is talking about the mermaids in the ocean who will sing to every man who passes, all except him. Through this imagery, we, as readers, truly get the chance to understand how little Prufrock thinks of himself.
In addition to visual imagery, Elliot also uses kinesthetic imagery. At the beginning of the poem, the readers learn that they are being taken on a walk by Prufrock. There is much language that pertains to walking and traveling. However, the readers must decipher though all of the language whether or not Prufrock is actually traveling. This poem could in his mind, just as easily that it could actually take place on a walk and outside of the building with the women. Finally, Elliot uses kinestheic imagery is used in regard to the society at the time. This society is quite restricting, in a way it restricts Prufrock's movement. For example, "My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin, / My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin." Elliot twists this imagery of motion to connect the poem to the society at the time. It shows how constricting it is, not allowing Prufrock to act upon his feelings, restricting him to the point of almost complete fixation.
#1
ReplyDeleteThis is Annette Deion (sent from brother's account)
Elliot incorporated a strong sense of class divisions in the poem to emphasize Prufrock’s strong feelings of being a segregated outcast. Throughout the whole poem, Prufrock feels different from the upper-class women. He feels unworthy to even approach them, so much so that he even believes that he would be “disturbing the universe” if he tried talking to them. Elliot establishes this sense of different classes by describing the high-class atmosphere of the women’s tea party in comparison to Prufrock’s lower feelings. He states, “After the cups, the marmalade, the tea, among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,” which describes the high class atmosphere. Then when he says, “I should have been a pair of ragged claws, scuttling across the floors of silent seas,” we envision Prufrock as an unworthy crab, on the “bottom” of the ocean floor, (the lower class.)
In response to #1) The 1920’s were a time of great socio-economic change for the United States, as the rich amassed tremendous amounts of wealth the poor continued to struggle to meet basic needs. Many pieces of writing were impacted by this new changing culture, such as The Great Gatsby, and “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” is no different. Phrases like “half-deserted streets”, “muttering retreats” and “cheap hotels”, evoke feelings of a city slum, which is where Prufrock starts his dialogue. In doing this Eliot associates Prufrock with the lower class without explicitly stating that he is poor. Eliot does this again by describing the women as “braceleted and white and bare”, while giving images of “sunsets”, “teacups” and “skirts that trail along the floor”. According to Prufrock these upper class women live in paradise, a paradise that he will never be able to experience. The class divisions that Eliot includes in this poem are used as further examples of differences between Prufrock and the women, and it is because of these differences that Prufrock thinks that he is unable to interact with the women.
ReplyDeleteResponse to #1:
ReplyDeleteI strongly agree that class divisions are evident within this poem. I think one thing that Eliot does is stresses Prufrock's insignificance. As the poem progresses, Prufrock feels less and less significant to these women. When Prufrock wrote this poem, he lived in England, which is a pretty obvious reason that the poem takes place in London. When he describes the city, he uses all of these nasty descriptions, like the “yellow fog” (line 16) and “yellow smoke” (line 17) that are symbolic of London. However, Eliot also introduces class into this city. Prufrock constantly mentions these women, "talking of Michelangelo."
Here's a little blurb from my essay that I felt connected with this question A LOT: "Prufrock repeats this many times throughout the poem, indicating that the women are more elegant and sophisticated than the narrator. The allusion to Michelangelo is also a metonymy to the entire Renaissance, or rebirth, period in Europe in the 1300’s. However, Eliot uses this to foreshadow the rebirth that will never happen, and the hopelessness that the narrator will experience later in the poem"
Not only does Eliot use class divisions to show the social structure and insignificance of Prufrock, it allows Prufrock to be even MORE hopeless by the end of the poem. He uses the Renaissance as a reference towards rebirth, that will never happen for Prufrock. However, as the poem progresses, Prufrock's insignificance becomes more and more unrealistic. He becomes so insecure, he uses hyperbole and other poetic devices to make unrealistic connections to his insecurities and differences with these higher class women.
Another blurb from my essay that I feel is necessary in this discussion: As the narrator continues to debate (inside his head) whether or not he wants to enter the room in which the women gather, he uses hyperbole to describe his feelings. For example, he feels as though he will disrupt the entire universe if he enters the room to express his feelings for the woman he loves. This already indicates hopelessness and fear of rejection from this woman. The narrator’s insecurity increases with each line of the poem. Prufrock continues as he compares himself to a bug, “pinned and wriggling on the wall” (line 58). The narrator believes that the women will scrutinize him in the same way a scientist would study a bug. Then, he proceeds to compare himself to a crab, “scuttling across the floors of silent seas” (line 74). Prufrock considers himself lower in rank than the women, convincing himself that the women are better than him.
Throughout the poem, Prufrock's insecurities and hopelessness increase rapidly. Eliot may have done this to stress socioeconomic differences in the early 1900's.
Sorry I keep referring to my essay, but again it's important :) "In his poem, Eliot is hinting at the world’s perception of the overeducated, emotional man that Prufrock is. “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” is considered a modernist poem, which breaks from classical or traditional forms. In 1914, Prufrock moved to Britain, which was one of the most modern countries in the world. The poem takes place in an enormous, dirty city, and includes an overeducated, emotional man named J. Alfred Prufrock, who is afraid of rejection. The topics of war, cities and fear are all modernist themes that T.S. Eliot utilizes in his poem."
#5: Throughout the poem Eliot uses visual and aural imagery to demonstrate the constant fears that overwhelm Prufrock’s mind. With visual images such as “half-deserted streets” and “one-night cheap hotels” Eliot is able to set the lonely atmosphere of the poem within its first few lines. Prufrock is not only a lonely man, but also a self-conscious one, who is unable to escape an image he created in his own mind. He frequently visualizes that the women he wants to talk to will scrutinize him the moment he approaches them. He says they have “the eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,” and he cannot bear to be dissected as if he were a fly being carefully examined by a group of scientists. This image shows how Prufrock views the world, as well as the way he thinks he is perceived by the world. Eliot also focuses on the image of a staircase when Prufrock decides it is “time to turn back and descend the stair.” While ascending a staircase could represent striving to achieve a goal, descending the stairs demonstrates Prufrock’s failure to reach new heights by facing his fears.
ReplyDeleteThe aural imagery used in the poem is also particularly important in understanding the inner workings of Prufrock’s mind. He imagines the women saying things like “how his hair is growing thin!” and various other criticisms. This illustrates that Prufrock thinks so poorly of himself that the only things he can visualize the women saying to him are critiques. Eliot also expresses Prufrock’s feelings of being an outsider with the aural image, “I know the voices dying with a dying fall beneath the music from a farther room”. He hears voices and music drone out in the background of his own inner voice. He wants so badly to be in that farther room, but he allows his self-degrading thoughts to overpower the calling of the voices and music he hears in the distance.
#4. Do I dare to eat a peach? And how should I presume? Do I dare disturb the universe? Of course not. This is the implication of each of Prufrock's questions. They are all rhetoricals. The character of Prufrock is so afraid of taking risks, that even something as absurdly mundane as eating a fruit with a pit is now an insurmountable undertaking. He has paralyzed himself with his own thoughts to avoid the responsibility of choosing between risk and safety. "Love Song" is a lengthy poem at 131 lines long. It potentially takes place for only a few a few seconds in his consciousness. The repetitions of questions such as "how should I presume?" reinforce the hopeless internal struggle between his wants and fears. Every second feels like hours of thinking, and the entire effort seems worthless according to the morbid tone at the end of the poem. Prufrock is a lost cause unable to get past the "what-ifs" that he asks himself. That is why, once the reader reaches the line "do I dare to eat a peach", the complete, sad, desperation of Prufrock becomes unbearable. You want to grab the man by the shoulders and tell him to get over himself. This creates a theme that runs counter to the ideas of the narrator.
ReplyDelete#4: I remember when we first read "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" in class a few of us laughed at the line, "Do I dare eat a peach?" To those reading the poem, the line is, indeed, laughable. After all, a peach is a common fruit, and not many people worry about dying from eating a peach. As Leah mentions, the pit of a peach is quite large, so it is irrational to fear accidentally swallowing it. Prufrock's question about the peach relates/connects to the other questions he poses in the poem because they all demonstrate his timidity and self-consciousness. Whether it is something as big as the universe or something as small as a peach, the reader clearly understands Prufrock's hesitance. Essentially, this allows us to understand why he doesn't approach the women talking about Michelangelo (whether they are real or not) -- Prufrock is scared of putting himself in a position where others, and not just him, can notice and analyze his flaws (his balding head, his thin arms/legs). Interestingly, according to Chinese mythology, those who ate peaches were granted long and healthy lives. Meanwhile, Prufrock's passivity paralyzes his ability to enjoy his life. Maybe Prufrock should have eaten a peach.
ReplyDelete#4: Prufrock's absurd question "Do I dare eat a peach" had me laughing at first. The fact that Prufrock questioned everything in existence and every choice he made or didn't make made him a paranoid man with no achievements in life. this peach he speaks of is not entirely a peach but also symbolizes everything he is utterly afraid of doing. "Do I dare disturb the universes" is also another absurd question he asks. He fears eating a peach, or the symbolism of speaking to women, will disturb the universe, make everyone stare and speak down to him, laugh at imperfections that everyone has and be alarmed by his thinking he can speak to anyone. His alarming contemplation of eating a peach shows his low self esteem and lack of making any decisions for himself. He fears anything he decides to do will either cause bodily harm to himself or cause others to harass him. This makes the reader laugh at how pathetic he is and maybe if he would man up and eat a peach without questioning the action he would get somewhere in life and stop feeling so sorry for all the decisions he made, and didn't make. This question creates a theme of paranoia and also vulnerability.
ReplyDelete#4: Like everyone above me has already said, the line "do I dare eat a peach” seems funny at first. However, I think there is a lot more symbolism in it. From walking down the street, to talking to a woman, this man is literally afraid of everything. Obviously most people wouldn’t think twice about eating a peach, yet here he is afraid and weary to even think about trying it. Prufrock is paralyzed with fear in every aspect of his life. I agree with Alex when he mentioned that he doesn’t think Prufrock even considers doing any of these things. He contemplates eating a peach, and approaching a woman, but I don’t think he has any intention to do it…ever. He is stuck in this state of hopelessness where he has no control of himself. He does not even have the courage to decide to eat a piece of fruit. He struggles with things people do every day and spends time thinking about the “what-if.” He is just hopeless and stuck in this state of desperation. He is worrying his life away instead of enjoying it.
ReplyDelete#4 When Prufrock asks the question "do I dare eat a peach" it shows just how insecure and unsure he is. Throughout the entire poem we constantly find him questioning himself and the actions that he is taking. This shows how he cannot even do something as simple as eat a peach without having to think of the consequences that may come out of it. As mentioned by Leah and Alina the pit of a peach is extremely large that it would be nearly impossible to choke on it. Which only further proves how unnecessary Prufrock's fears are. The peach question reminds me of another question that he asks which is "do i dare" which is another instance where is constantly second guesses what he is doing and whether he should even just do anything. He over thinks things so much that he stops himself from actually having experiences because he is afraid of the possible outcomes. He thinks that everything he does is wrong he cannot even think about saying a few words so a woman because he automatically assumes that she will make fun of him. He thinks that she will laugh at what he says or just dismiss him because he will do something wrong. Every question he asks goes back to his paranoia and the fact that he has such low self esteem that whatever he is doing must be wrong.
ReplyDelete#1
ReplyDeleteThrough our narrator's consciousness, we can see how he perceives everything around him, including ho he compares the people he sees to each other and to himself. He describes a groups of people as "the women.../ Talking of Michelangelo." indicating that he sees them as of a high and sophisticated class, perhaps above him, generalizing their apparently meaningful conversation to talking about Renaissance art. Because the story centralizes around his social disability when it comes to women, he also puts them on a greater level of their own, so that they are the top of the scale, never mentioning any males "Talking of Michelangelo." Also, based on his lack of self-confidence throughout the poem, we can likely believe that he will classify people above him for the most part. However, he speaks so poorly of the city in his word choice, with its "one-night cheap hotels and sawdust restaurants" degrading the streets. He may see this as the home of the working man, as opposed to the cultured lady, which he is interested in. But as bad as he talks about the people of the city's surface, he talks even lower of himself. He mentions that he is just a crab, a bottom-feeder compared to the humans, no matter how successful or cultured.
4) When Prufrock asks himself "Do I dare eat a peach?" it implies that that he is now worried about small things such as parting his hair back or wearing "white flannel trousers". One reason that he may be worried about this is because he may eat the peach and have the juice drip all over him. Although it doesn't seem like a big deal, to him it would be the end of the world. This line compares to the other things that he says in the poem because all of his thoughts are theoretical; none of them are based of past experiences. We can always makes judgements based on what has happened to us in the past, but how can someone make a decision on something without going through the experience at least once? This question is along the lines of the many other "what-if" type questions in the poem, such as "Do I dare?", or "How should I presume?".
ReplyDelete#3 Fragmentation just ... Often, sentences are broken into fragments to convey a jumpiness, a rushed tone. This further illuminates Prufrok's inner awareness that he in fact does not have all the time in the world to wait and approach the women. His language is mostly punctuated by commas, if anything at all. This shows his deliberation, interrupted by the passing of time, while demonstrating his lack of ability to pull himself, and his grammar together. It is like he wishes he could only let his sentences, and his moments of waiting, and the passing of opportunity. Take these lines (87-98) as some prime examples of his lack of confidence, level headed-ness, and absurdness to shore up his thoughts
ReplyDelete"And would it have been worth it, after all,
After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
Would it have been worth while,
To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
To have squeezed the universe into a ball
To roll it toward some overwhelming question,
To say: “I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all”—
If one, settling a pillow by her head,
Should say: “That is not what I meant at all;
That is not it, at all.” "
This ties into the time period of World War I very nicely. Cities were booming, speeding forward with new technology, new industry, and new opulence. However, they were growing more and more impersonal. Identity and confidence boosting comforts were no where to be seen. Prufrock and his jumbled language harkens back to this era. It was a time of disjointed culture, without time for proper punctuation. Many tried to make sense of their life and their place in cities, but many had trouble finding this truth. Even the greatest artist and poets abandoned America throughout these decades. it makes sense that Prufrock is upset, rushed, procrastinating, and lost all at once, for so many of the time period had very similar thoughts and feelings. But Elliot wished to use Prufrock to highlight the absurdity of this downward spiral, the inevitability of life passing by. Prufrock is a smack in the face to awaken those lost within the new culture. He is a reminder to find meaning, reach for identity, and determine who we are- not who the city demands we be- before it is too late.
Class divisions are indeed evident throughout the poem primarily through the way Prufrock looks up at upper class women as people more valuable than he. When describing the women, he remarks several times that they speak of Michelangelo, have the scent of perfume, wear bracelets on their bare white arms, and have shawls. Along with these indications of wealth, he describes them as authoritative and powerful, having the power to pin him to a wall and examine him like a bug. The dichotomy between this and the city is that Eliot uses phrases like "cheap hotels" and "sawdust restaurants" when describing the city and its "half deserted streets." Prufrock claims that he belongs at the bottom of the Ocean to hide in his shell like the introverted and socially awkward "crab" that he is. The images incorporated of class division subtly suggest Eliot's conveyance of a message to people during the time period, perhaps to shed light on his disapproval of the social pyramid during the early 1900's.
ReplyDeletePrufrock’s absurd questions throughout the poem show how paranoid he is of messing up. When he asks “ Do I dare eat a peach?” he shows that he would rather decline the enjoyment of a sweet fruit than risk swallowing the giant pit inside. The same goes for his stance on the women who speak of Michaelangelo. He would rather watch them from afar than risk them not liking him at all. Prufrock is afraid to take action. He is afraid to see what kind of enjoyment life could present him with. For this reason he asks rhetorical questions to talk himself out of situations and use his “disturbance of the universe” as an excuse to never step into the limelight.
ReplyDeleteThe line "Do I dare eat a peach?" symbolizes Prufrock's insane paranoia over rejection. By including this in the poem, Elliot insinuates that Prufrock has lost all valuable judgement of reality. In life, people do not question whether or not they should eat a peach because the pit is poisonous. In fact, many people do not even know that the pit is poisonous. We take it for granted that we will not swallow the pit because it is something that is very hard and painful to actually try and perform. Prufrock has lost his ability to make this rational decision and to ask rational questions because of his fear of women and rejection. This can be seen in other questions he asks throughout the poem such as "Do I dare disturb the universe?" because he believes that rejection from a woman will be so fatal as to disturb human kind as he knows it. Elliot includes these questions to demonstrate to the reader just how intense his fear is and how far away from reality it has made him.
ReplyDeleteThe line "Do I dare eat a peach?" shows just how much simple actions trouble Prufrock. He is so terrified of everything he is driving himself crazy with things that any other person would not think to question. The line can also be seen as a metaphor for the girl he desires throughout the poem, assuming that this line is an allusion to Eve and the apple in the Garden of Eden. The repetition and constant questioning shows not only all of Prufrocks fears and his paranoia, but specifically his fear of rejection. He is afraid to do almost anything because of the intense fear he has of being rejected, specifically by women. I agree with Kathryn when she says that the question "Do I dare disturb the universe?" shows that he believes being rejected will be a fatal blow he will never recover from.
ReplyDelete#4
ReplyDeleteIm a follower, the peach question is the most fun to answer because its just so pathetic.
Prufrock's question "Do I dare eat a peach?" is humorous in a mocking sort of way. You aren't laughing at the question itself, but at the fact that it was asked legitimately by Prufrock. He is so caught up with all of the "dangers" of the world. I say dangers with quotations because instead of being worried about the fact that stores have to cover their floors in sawdust because its so disgusting, and maybe having a slight rational fear that the sketchy poor neighborhood he is in may expose him to being mugged or attacked, he is worried about eating a figurative peach that isnt even in his palm. Worried that a few women he was never brave enough to talk to might reject him. And that these events, talking to women, will disturb the universe. As if the universe was determined to make him the most sexually frustrated human being on this planet, that any social interaction with a woman will cause the world as we know it to shatter to pieces. I think sydney's analysis of a potential allusion to the Bible would also support this sexual frustration. And why is he even afraid to eat a peach? To potentially choke on the pit? To lose a tooth and look even more like an old man than he already thinks he is? To accidentally die from the poison within the peach? To look like a dribbling fool as Nareg mentioned? Does it even matter what his reasoning is? Because no matter what, no reason justifies his fear.
PATHETIC
I feel like everyone answering question number four, we are all laughing at Prufrock together. We are united through this.